Forum7

Dialogue with a Canadian Colleague

by Laura Darlene Lansberry
and "Theresa" of "Gender Equality"

We created these pseudonyms and resequenced some of the e-mail segments
to better present the continuity of a worthy discussion.

Theresa: In the past few days since I've stopped posting to the transie newsgroups something quite interesting has begun to happen. Not only has the volume in these groups dropped off sharply, the topics are going back where they were before I joined them a couple of years ago .... back to "I want a sex-change", "My computer did...." and "Where can I get hormones?" I find this to be a fascinating study of the true nature of the little clique who so clearly dominate these groups. Their concerns are largely unrelated to transgender life, and their discussions are almost entirely superficial in nature. And, this is the way it was when I first came along! Nothing has changed, and no progress has been made.

So, what am I saying here? I am saying that the *.transgendered newsgroups serve transsexuals only. Those who might wish to discuss more indepth topics ... are openly held in aspersion. Essential discussion --social and legal equality, dealing with discrimination, safer sex, improved methods of therapy, etc.-- simply isn't happening. And it won't happen so long as this exclusively transsexual focus dominates these groups. ... Their narrow, obsessive, focus upon surgery and passing as a cure-all for their problems is the single most harmful facet of our community.

... rather I will tell you (with absolute assurance) that simply standing up and saying "I am a woman, I am male, and I refuse to be ashamed of it" is the key to our future acceptance. Through this declaration of obvious fact, and by abandoning shame and justification, we hold the key to gaining the legal and social support that is our due in a free and egalitarian society. I can no longer waste my time playing "mother" to a bunch of ingrates and fools who simply will not listen, and actively block every attempt at forward motion... Their silliness is not my problem. The Gender Equality website will stay up ... beyond that, I no longer consider it my mission to try to open the eyes of the blind, or please the ears of the deaf... they are now on their own.

Laura: We have decided a long time back that newsgroups aren't the forum for wisdom. Could they have been? Perhaps! If people were different ... but people are what they are.

Actually the newsgroups are not helping or hindering the progress of gender variants in achieving a niche in society. Cowardice is the problem. The propensity to hide like a child with a dirty secret pervades our community and diminishes us in the eyes of those who think we are warped before we get started.

A person of integrity and honor can walk head held high and beat back the prejudice singlehanded if she has the nerve for it. Each individual who is out and open with the people in their neighborhood and their community is of more worth to our progress than a thousand newsgroups.

Theresa: [Gays] are winning the fight by accepting themselves just as they are, by eschewing justification, and by standing up and speaking their own cases... something that (to my knowledge) only Gender Equality has so far done for transies.

Laura: We are part of the gay community ... gay males and lesbians are more gender variants than sexual variants. Living as a woman is gender variation. A male loving another male and wanting to spend life in a relationship with another male (or female with a female) is also a gender variation. Sex is not necessarily even a part of that loving relationship (although it usually is somel part.) Until we recognize the full extent of gender variation we will continue to be divided. We are not riding on the coattails of the gay community. We are an integral part of the same phenomenon and we are both greater for that knowledge.

You are joining a fight that has been and is being fought by many of us. You are not the first and you are not alone ... except by choice. Some of our finest voices have been among transsexuals because they have to get over their fear and deal with others openly.

Theresa: WRONG.... put the blame where it belongs... on the power structure, and on those who accept (or deny) their own oppression. In plain point of fact, most transies have accepted the limitations upon their lives, and have so acclimated themselves to the notion that there is nothing they can do, that their lots have been accepted as normal. They are no different than black people who would not come forward to vote in the 1960s. The idea of living without all those extra limits was just so foreign to them that they just can't grasp it.

Laura: WRONG YOURSELF ... if gender variants and blacks want to belly ache about their lot, I let them and feel no need to defend them. Jews were in the same boat at one time, and orientals, and the Irish, and they kicked back and made their way. The ones that make it don't get legal redress handed to them and blacks and gender variants won't get it that way either. There was a time I wanted laws to protect me too ... I grew up and matured. Any law worth having covers all the people, not just some minority that wants a red carpet laid out for them.

Theresa: What happens elsewhere no longer concerns me... If Canada ends up being the only country on earth that fully supports transgender equality, I have done my job. I can no longer waste my time playing "mother" to a bunch of ingrates and fools who simply will not listen, and actively block every attempt at forward motion... Their silliness is not my problem.

Laura: The difference between your approach and mine is that you appear to want a community backing you up and you hassle other gender variants. My approach is to go directly to the source of our problems and live among them. I don't like cowards and could care less whether cowards have equal rights. I too am not their mother, have never tried to be their mother, and simply live my life in friendship with those people of whatever persuasion who are capable of being my friends.

Theresa: The Gender Equality website will stay up. You are all welcome to make of it as you wish. The response from HRCs and legal professionals in Canada has been entirely favorable. I will continue to expand it, new essays will be added as new issues are tackled. I will still run a monthly announcement on Usenet. But beyond that, I no longer consider it my mission to try to open the eyes of the blind, or please the ears of the deaf... they are now on their own.

Laura: Glad to hear that Gender Equality will stay up ... I believe websites do us more good than all the in-fighting put together. A website is not a mission ... it is a statement. Those who understand will make good use of it and those who don't won't. Glad you are dropping "the crusade" ... you will be a lot happier and, perhaps, achieve more by letting people read your website and assimilate what they are able to assimilate. It will take time ... it took time for us to arrive where we are; it took time to arrive where you are. Don't be too hard on others for not being able to make a leap into an unknown and frightening (to them) world view. They are not fools ... only cowards. A fool will always be a fool, but a coward can overcome her fear.

Theresa: So my friends... I can only suggest that you watch and learn. Study the underlying messages on the newsgroups, see what people are really saying over the longer term of their posting. There are trends and patterns that are not immediately obvious, but once you recognize them you will discover the very source of the oppression of the transgendered.... it comes from within our community, much more than from the cisgendered world. Transsexuals have by and large accepted their lots in life, and now rebel against change... they -- not I, not Gender Equality, and not the law -- are the real problem.

In the transgender community, ONLY transsexuals get all freaked out over Gender Equality's work. If you truly understand transsexuals, then you will understand that this is a function of the inherent instability of their mindsets.... they have to believe a grand lie (the disorder model) in order to get what they think they need. Transsexualism is inherently a dishonest lifestyle, at some level they all know it, and they know that I am working to expose it.

Laura: Actually you are wrong about transsexuals ... my recent articles ripping the veil from the illusions of being female or converted into female, have been well received. Your blanket condemnation is inappropriate and attacks the very people who brought gender variance to the public eye. What you think you are exposing I have no idea. That transsexuals aren't female? They know that! That SRS creates only a pseudo-vagina? They know that! That effectual orgasm is impossible after having the gonads removed? Most of them know that! That they aren't females trapped in male bodies? Most of them know that is bullshit! They want the surgeries and the hormones and the gatekeepers usually demand the deceptions before they will grant same.

Transsexuals (so-called) are not the source of the problem ... the source of the problem is the illusions of the majority of gender variants that we are each a different phenomenon. We are all part of the same phenomenon. Blaming transsexuals, as you do in this statement, is simplistic. Transsexuals may have their illusions, but, for the most part, they do NOT 'pass' and they must meet the public in an open arena.

Good people, gender variants, standing up and living their life openly, can lead happy, fulfilled lives right now. All it takes is being a good person and not making a big deal out of what and who we are. Joe and Jane Average do not care what we are, or about our troubles, any more than we care about theirs ... Joe and Jane want to know if we are honest and can make their lives a little better. All we should care is if they are honest and can make our lives a little better.

My friends are 'redneck' archers and I am a bit of a redneck myself. Integrity and honesty is the major value among so-called rednecks. I live openly as a gender variant woman and shoot against males, not females, because it would be dishonest to shoot against females. By the same token Julia shoots as a female and they all understand why ... she is not as strong as most females. We are openly a triad and we have no problem with anyone... and many of the archers, men and women, are as friendly with us as they are with each other.

Theresa: You're right... [people in general] don't care. However, the power structure does care, and they are the ones in a position to harm us the most. Does it not occur to you to look beyond the boundaries of "nice middle class transies" and see what is really out there.... Have you looked at the drug addictions, AIDS, prostitution, high crime rate, and high unemployment rate in our community? Have you looked seriously at those ads asking "where can I shop?" and thought about what they really mean? Have you paid attention to how many of us are murdered, raped, or beaten up each week?

Laura: Sure have ... I have no use for cowards and thieves. I believe in personal responsibiliy and putting the blame where it belongs ... on the individual. You get AIDS ... you were promiscuous, or you used a dirty needle, or you got it from someone who did. You didn't get it because of the power structure. You don't have a job ... there are hundreds of ways to get money honestly if you get off your butt and work for it. A window washing business can be started by anyone for almost nothing, and there are many,. many more. No one owes anyone else a job. "Where can you shop?" Anywhere you want to ... I have never had my money refused. We aren't innocents being murdered, raped, and beaten ... the statistics indicate that, like any person doing high risk things, some of us are in danger. I don't fear being murdered, raped, or beaten ... it isn't going to happen. I am not involved with high risk activities.

Theresa: No, [but] we also need to concern ourselves with legal matters, such as the protected right to function in society as equal and autonomous partners.

Laura: We have those rights now ... no one is stopping us from living equal and autonomous lives but ourselves. We want invitations to soothe our fears and no one else gets such invitations. Life is a matter of survival ... I have no desire to protect those among us who can not and will not take care of their own lives.

Theresa: Can you shop for clothes wherever you want?

Laura: YES

Theresa: Can you use a public washroom wherever you are, without fear?

Laura: YES! It doesn't have to be a female restroom, by the way..

Theresa: Can you be reasonably assured of being treated fairly by a new landlord?

Laura: YES, as much as anyone else. An asshole of a landlord is usually an asshole to everyone.

Theresa: Can you be sure your new boss is going to play fair?

Laura: YES, as much as anyone else. Same as with landlords!

Theresa: Can you trust the Cops to treat you kindly?

Laura: YES, in that I am polite and am not breaking the law.

Theresa: Can you take them to task when they don't play fair?

Laura: NOT USUALLY, but life isn't fair. Everyone has to deal with that issue.

Theresa: If you answered "No" to any one of these questions, then you are being oppressed... you are perceived as something less than equal, and nobody should have to put up with that.

Laura: NOT TRUE, my equality isn't dependent on how others perceive me. There are too many laws, too many assholes, and I have no intention of waiting around for fairness or equality to be dealt out by others. I take it as my own to the best of my ability and, trust me, I feel no sense of oppression. I don't identify with those who perceive themselves as oppressed and if they do feel that way my advice is to find a way out of it or around it. Money talks ... I go where I want and do what I want and most people know better than to restrict me. I get real upset if they try!

Theresa: Godspeed to you all.

Laura: I have no use for gods myself. But it is good to hear you are making progress. The illusions in our community, however, belong to all of us, not just transsexuals ... and putting transsexuals down for not having your world view, or ours, is not helping anyone.

Julia told me that you and I are a lot a like the other day. I replied, a bit pissed off, "No, we are very different. Theresa's approach is to make a scapegoat out of transsexuals when they are the only reason our form of gender variance went public at all. She attacks people, not attitudes. 'Transsexuals are at fault for all of our (transgenderists') problems?' That is crap. We are all at fault for our own problems. You want others to treat you right, then stand up and be counted. We must take the blame for our own 'oppression' and stop allowing others to do it to us."

I'm not oppressed, Julia's not oppressed, Helina isn't oppressed, and Joan isn't oppressed and there are countless others living their individual lives and by doing so are doing more to change attitudes than all the militant angry people in our community. Your message to stand up and be counted is similar to mine, but there the similarity ends. Another way you are different is that you are so full of yourself you don't see the good done by countless others. I do! You are not the first to stand up and be counted and you won't be the last, and neither am I.

Theresa: Actually they [transsexuals on the newsgroups] are a problem... What most people don't know is that the Human Rights Commissions in Canada are monitoring these newsgroups at my request, and have very strong opinions about what is said on them. Mostly, I get to contend with thoughts like "If they all want sex-changes, why should we listen to you?"

Laura: Perhaps you shouldn't have suggested they monitor the newsgroups ...GriN!

Theresa: Cowardice is most certainly one of the problems. Were it not for this need to 'pass' or go 'stealth' our community would be far better understood than it is.

Laura: Cowardice and the dishonesty of being that goes with it are a problem. If one is dishonest about central identity then one is not likely to be a person of integrity in other matters either.

Theresa: Yep, I agree. I do this every day. There isn't a single person in my life (except maybe the guy who bags my groceries) who doesn't know all about my past and my present. When a new friendship begins I make a point of taking the person aside and explaining everything to them... and I remain open for the discussion with them any time they wan't to persue it. I also discuss transgender issues openly and casually, salting them into the conversation as casually as most women toss in comments about cute guys.

Laura: Well done ... my own method is different. I mention that I am a gender variant woman and then proceed to relate to them in the areas where we have common ground. Of course, if spouses are mentioned, I mention Joan and Julia, but unless asked I don't care to discuss gender variant issues and they don't care to hear about them.

Theresa: [You said earlier that "we are part of the gay community".] I disagree. Some of the gay community may have gender issues, and some of the gender community may have orientation issues, but we are not one and the same group. Moreover, there are sound political and legal reasons for retaining a distinction between the two groups... not the least of which is the size differential between the communities. Our maximum statistical impact within the gay community is less than the margin of error in most statistical gathering, and that makes us invisible under their wing. ...We are about 1 in 20,000 people. Gays are about 1 in 10. This means our maximum impact upon the gay community's stats is about 1 in 2000, or .02%

Laura: This has impact only if you view us as distinct from the gay community. I do not! You certainly have a right to your opinion. Given time, I am totally convinced that the diversity of the human species will reveal that gender variance links us all ... directly. I am not interested in being under their wing or they under ours. I view the rejection the various communities have for each other as the same dysfunctional illusion repeated ad nausem.

Theresa: Consider this: Based upon Gender Equality's phone records (1200 calls between June of 1990 and July of 1995) about 90% of transies suffer job loss.

Laura: Canadian experience doesn't reflect the experience in the states. I know of a number TSs in Arizona alone who have transitioned in their companies successfully.

Theresa: As nice as your theory may sound, it falls apart real quick in the real world. There IS a very valid reason for maintaining separate identities.

Laura: It is working fine in redneck Arizona! GriN! You are not the first and you are not alone ... believe it!

Theresa: Wrong on both counts.

Laura: Denying it doesn't change it! You aren't alone, there are many others in countries all over the world fighting for equal rights, each in their own way. If you are all alone in Canada, that's a pity.

Theresa: The fact that I am confining these efforts to Canada in the future is largely a reaction to the difference between Canadian and American attitudes... I don't know why your country can't get its act together in terms of human equality and quite frankly, as a Canadian, it really doesn't affect me much.

Laura: Actually it seems, if your country is as you describe it, it would be the one guilty of massive oppression. Here individual freedom is not a gift of government. It is part of our national identity.

The highest value in the US is that anyone should be able to do anything they want so long as it doesn't harm another person or another person's property. Things don't always work that way, but we try. People have a right to do anything they want to their bodies and it should be no one else's business. SRS and hormones should be available on demand ... as they are in many so-called 'oppressed' countries such as Mexico.

This page was last updated on 24 July 97.

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